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48 of 49 people found the following review helpful.
Great Water Heater
By Brad Murphy
After installing a new high efficiency gas furnace and central air conditioner, I discovered that my 15 year old gas tank water heater was leaking. I had a choice: either replace the tank heater with new one for about $500.00 or upgrade to a new high efficiency gas tankless water heater.I wanted to go with the tankless choice to provide endless hot water, but I was concerned with the potential difficulty of the installation. There were three key issues with replacing a tank heater with a tankless water heater.First, I wanted to keep the new water heater in the same central basement location as the old tank water heater. That necessitated the choice of a "Condensing" type tankless water heater because they vent the exhaust through standard 3 inch PVC drain pipe (about $1 per foot). The non-condensing type tankless water heaters have a higher exhaust temperature and require very expensive stainless steel exhaust piping. This type of heater are usually mounted on an outside wall to shorten the exhaust pipe length. So, I chose the Rheem condensing tankless water heater, but I still needed to run two 25 foot runs of PVC pipe to feed the intake combustion air and to exhaust the combustion gases. Since I had just done the same procedure when I installed the 95% efficient gas furnace, I knew that it was time consuming, but within my abilities.The next issue was the water pipe plumbing. I have done a little copper pipe plumbing in the past, it was functional but not pretty. So, I knew I could get the job done. The key problem was that the old tank water heater had the cold inlet and the hot outlet pipes at the top of the tank and the tankless heater needed the connections at the bottom. I would guess that they use the bottom connection to eliminate the chance of water leaking on top of the heater. The heater has a very sophisticated computer control system that needs to be protected. I mounted the new heater on a 2x4 frame with a OSB sheathing and ran the water pipes behind the mounting between the exposed stud wall of the mechanical room. This also helped free up room to run the PVC piping up and through the exposed floor trusses in the ceiling.The last issue was the natural gas supply. This tankless water heater requires a much higher gas flow supply as compared to the tank water heater it replaced. While this might seem counter intuitive; why should a more efficient appliance take more fuel than a less efficient appliance? The reason is that the tankless water heater must heat the cold water very quickly, in just the few seconds that the water is running through the heater on its way the the hot water tap in your house. This water heater needs 199,900 BTU of natural gas. My old tank water heater used 40,000 BTU. This large increase required two changes in the gas supply. First, I had the replace the 1/2 inch black pipe gas line that fed the old tank water heater with a 3/4 inch supply line. Second, I need to have the gas utility company replace the 240,000 BTU meter outside my house with a upgraded 400,000 BTU meter to accommodate the nearly 200,000 BTU tankless water heater, the 115,000 furnace, the 66,000 gas range and the 20,000 gas clothes dryer. Some utilities will do this for free, but in my area (near Chicago) they charge $220.00 minus what they "calculate" as increased revenue from additional gas usage. While there will probably be less overall gas usage, the utility just looks at the difference in the old gas appliance and the new gas appliance. They estimate the new meter will cost about $160.00 net. I don't need to get this completed until the winter heating season when the furnace needs to be run at the same time as the water heater.I didn't have much problem installing the Rheem tankless water heater. But it did take two solid days of work. I was able to perform the whole install without any assistance. I am a pretty good DIYer, but I don't think that it took any great skill, just a thorough reading of the instructions (the Rheem instructions are very good and they are available on their web site), a little YouTube How-To video research and a written plan including how to mount the heater and making the connections. I watched the set of videos on the Rheem web site. While they cover the older non-condensing type heaters, they are a good starting point.[...]I don't know what it would cost to have a professional install this heater, I would guess that it would take 6 to 8 hours of labor plus supplies. I spent about $350.00 on copper piping and fittings, gas pipe and fittings, PVC pipe and fittings and various miscellaneous supplies. Also, don't forget to budget in a set of "Service Valves". They cost about $80.00 to $150.00 per set. They are needed to provide an easy way to periodically flush the heater to clean any hard water deposits.The Rheem tankless water heater worked great right from the initial start-up. My family enjoys the endless supply of hot water and we don't have to plan our showers around each others schedule or the the use of the clothes washer.
13 of 13 people found the following review helpful.
Very Nice!
By Tim
Installed this unit a couple of months ago, and so far everything is working very well. It replaced a 75-gallon water heater, and it exceeds it in performance.I had a large enough gas line into my house, but I did have to call PG&E to install a larger gas meter. They did this free of charge, and they were very expedient in the execution (about 1 week from the time I called). You need to consult the plumbing codes and call your utility before you begin.As one reviewer pointed out, the fan had a high pitched sound at start up. But after several cycles, the noise dropped considerably (I think it was tuning itself). To be sure, it's louder than a normal water heater, but it is probably quieter than my furnace. Normal water heater has a 65,000 BTU burner, Furnace has a 110,000 BTU burner, and this bad boy has a 199,000 BTU burner. The larger burners (furnace and Tankless) require additional combustion air, hence the fan. This model's fan is higher pitched than my furnace, but I think quieter overall. I installed this heater in my garage, so it's no problem, but if you were to install this in a closet in your house, you might find it too loud. It's this unit's only negative, and, for me, is not a deal breaker; however, it is the reason I gave it 4 stars instead of 5.For all who are considering tankless, you should definitely purchase a full condensing unit. Don't waste your time and money on the lesser models. This heater is 94% efficient! You will make up the $300 difference vs. the 83% efficient model in install costs alone, not to mention the long term gas savings! The difference in install costs is due to the exhaust venting: this model uses 3" PVC, which is easier and cheaper to install than the double-walled stainless steel vent, the lesser models require. The reason stainless is required on the other models is becuase the exhaust gas is hotter, which would melt PVC.Performance: this model works as advertised. It provides unlimited hot water. I've had two taps wide open at the same time, with 122F water coming out of both with the thermostat on the water heater set at 125F. Notes: it was a cold day, and the ground water was 50F on the supply side. Also, one of the taps was the last on the plumbing line, furthest from the heater. I can fill up the bathtub, take long showers, do whatever I want, and my wife can still take a shower, bath, whatever after me, and I could do dishes while she's in the shower. It's awesome.A few more notes to take into consideration:A friend of mine who is a plumber has installed a few 180,000 BTU, 83% efficient models, and has removed all of them, because the homeowners only had lukewarm water. This model does make an ample amount of hot water, but I would be leary of installing lower BTU/efficient models. The PG&E rep told me that most people in the area are installing 237,000 BTU tankless heaters. I know which model that is, and if you live in a colder climate or have a BIG house, I would probably do that too. (my house is 4 bd, 2.5 ba---this model is more than adequate).I knew I wanted to go tankless, but I balked at the high costs. This brand/unit has many negative reviews, and I took a gamble on the cheaper brand. Now that I know how awesome tankless is, I would probably be willing to up my budget to get the comparable model by the industry's leader: it has a thicker walled heat exchanger, and it has nothing but positive reviews. This is a long term purchase, that comes with a pay back in gas savings---there's no need to be cheap. Still, I feel this unit is priced appropriately, and I do recommend it, if you have a budget, and it goes in your garage.There are expensive valve kits out there for tankless water heaters. I thought they looked like a rip-off, but when I got mine, I was pleasantly surprised. The kit I got was from brasscraft, and it came with the hot and cold tankless isolation valves, a full port gas valve, and a flexible gas connector. The quality was amazing. The isolation valves are heavy and nicely built. Well worth the money!For my vent termination, I installed a concentric dryer vent kit (about $80), which only requires one penetration. I like it, but I'm not sure I like it for $80. Even though it's less attractive, I think two penetrations would have been fine.I had one plumber quote me $6,200 to provide and install a competing brand (it is a better brand, but not the true leader). (the plumber wasn't my friend---I can't use him because he contracts with the company I work for...conflict of interest). It took me several man days to install, but that was because of several factors: I installed it in a corner where there was limited attic space to install the vent---that was a huge pain in the thigh! Also, I have a re-cirulation line that needed some extra attention. However, I was able to complete 90% of the install, before I had to disconnect my old hot water heater and make the cut-over. I was without hot water less than 8 hours. I did the entire install by myself. I recommend getting help when you hang it on the wall.One final thing: when I plugged it in, it didn't do anything for about 30 seconds. My heart was in my throat, thinking "oh crud I got a lemon".....but then it just whirred to life!!! it's performed well ever since.
28 of 36 people found the following review helpful.
Costly mistake
By AbuelaLinda
The plumber installed this tankless water heater in my utility room in May 2011 as part of a kitchen/utility room remodel. He has installed many tankless water heaters, but had never installed this model. Evidently it was the latest model by Rheem. As soon as it was installed, it started making a loud, harmonic sound for 10 minutes that can be heard throughout the house. He said he had never heard this sound with other models and other brands.My contractor called Rheem help. After much delay we finally were able to talk with a Rheem level 3 technician. He had my contractor fiddle with all sorts of pulling of wires, etc. from the mother board, and after several such calls, it was isolated to be the sound of the fan, which continues for 10 minutes after the use of the heater. When one disconnects the fan, the irritating noise stops.Rheem had an independent contractor who works with them to do inspections and repairs. He drove to our house, took one look at it, and pronounced it a new model and he had never seen it before. He talked with the Rheem technician also, and no further progress was made. The visit was useless, except the independent contractor said the noise was definitely a "harmonics" sounds and not mechanical.The technician sent us a new fan. My contractor installed it, and the noise continued. After several phone calls and no solution, the Rheem level 3 technician said reluctantly that we should probably return the unit. We did, and I ordered a replacement. We held our breath while the contractor installed it. SAME PROBLEM. The fan continues to this day to make this horrid noise which is piercing. The tankless water heater is providing us with a lot of hot water--no problem. And the noise of the burner is minimal, just a whooshing sound. If this heater were in a garage (except directly next to a wall of the house, where I am sure the sound would transfer) or a basement, it might be ok but it is definitely NOT a good plan to install one in a utility room in the middle of the house!Rheem needs to re-design the fan not to make this noise and replace them in all the units that are out there. It definitely is the fan. I am disgusted. One other person on Amazon mentioned that these units are all way over-engineered. I agree with that comment. In Latin America and Europe these are simple machines that work extremely well, are cost effective and efficient. The unit I have has a digital attachment that is hanging on the wall that is electric and is attached to the tankless water heater and has codes show up on it.If I had it to do over again, I would have NOT bought a tankless water heater. They are a good idea, but the machines sold here are way too complex and expensive. The plumbing costs alone were more than $2,000, putting the cost of the unit at more than $3,100 for me, including installation ad plumbing. This has been a costly mistake.Addendum: PG&E now tells me that I need a new gas meter because of this meter. They will install it and there will be no cost to me, but after 3 trips by PG&E technicians and yet another installation visit, it has taken up a huge amount of time. One is given a window of time by PG&E of 4 hours and one has to be home so that they can check pilot lights after each visit. (I thought the new heater, new stove, and new furnace no longer had pilot lights but electrical ignition?) One gets a different story from each PG&E rep. Follow Consumer Reports' advice and read their articles on these water heaters and first do a cost-benefit analysis.
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